Serially Dating Gay Men

Here's a change of pace from my more standard "fat" stuff.  I often post on a general "Gay" site.  They had done a feature on a woman with a history of "serially dating gay men." She was relating what a negative experience this had been. I’ll share an excerpt, followed by my comment, which then elicited a question addressed to me, and my response to that.

After the Eric situation, you’d think I’d have learned a little something, but nay, nay Toy with Mes. I’m a slow learner because a couple of years after Eric came Adam. Like Eric, Adam was a cutie patootie. He was a jewelry designer whose turn-ons included anything by Ralph Lauren, interior design, avant-garde art, and kittens. He always smelled incredible and looked as pretty as a picture in a magazine. I KNOW! I told you I’m kind of a fucktard. And he wanted to like boobies, but it just wasn’t working. He was horrible in the boudoir, but I kept sleeping with him hoping it would get better, but it didn’t.


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As a Family Therapist specializing in Couples, I find it fascinating how "talented" folks were at picking "non-threatening" partners. This often results in women who eventually came out as bi or lesbian dating men who later came out as bi or gay (or transgendered).
I would also see women who had been sexually abused who repeatedly choose a (not yet out) gay partner to date because again...he will not press for sex…which suits the woman just fine.

As a general rule of thumb, when dating the "same" type of "wrong" partner repeats itself, as Therapists, we are alerted to look into how the "wronged" person is "setting her/himself up" rather than to accept the idea, of "Oh, I am a victim of these people with whom I shared a relationship."

What's also interesting as a Therapist, is realizing the choices are usually made at an unconscious level, so the patient often keeps repeating the pattern without gaining insight into why they make the choices they do.

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@Professor Fatology: Professor F., I find your comment very interesting…I've been looking up the subject for a while now…
I´ve been looking back on my past childhood "crushes" and learned that most of them are now gay! I have carried on the same "taste" for "androgynous men" into my 20s and I´m currently dating one after 6 years. I´m sure that I´m totally heterosexual and I don´t think my current boyfriend is gay, nothing indicates that he is, but I´m afraid that history could repeat itself…might there be something in this pattern that I´m not seeing?
L
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Dear L

Let me first say for legal and ethical purposes what I share is meant to be educational in nature, rather than therapeutic.

I was mentored by (maysherestinpeace) Virginia Satir.  If you ever read a book Uncommon Therapy by Jay Haley, there’s some great stuff on her. One of the trainings she did was to have us sit with our knees almost touching and stare into the eyes of our training partner for 10 minutes. She believed that after the age of 16, you never meet a new person. That is—everyone you will meet will remind you of someone you’ve known, and often on an unconscious level, you will tend to relate to the ―new person as if he or she were the familiar one. This is not necessarily tied to gender or age—for example, maybe your current boyfriend reminds you of your Aunt Minnie because of the way both of them cock their heads when they listen to you, or they both have the same accent. This was Satir’s explanation of why you can meet a ―stranger and feel immediately comfortable with him/her, or why you can meet a new person and hate them on the spot.
My earlier post was from the perspective of a Family Therapist. It's very rare to see a new patient who isn't coming in because of a problem. In my many years, I've only had one person come in and say, ―You know, I'm doing really well but I bet I can do even better! I tend to see the women who date gay men, and then turn out frustrated, or lesbian/bi/transgendered or have been sexually abused in their youth because they've gotten to a point where the repeated patterns of their lives have made them unhappy enough to be motivated for change.

If that's not your case…then perhaps dating a man who ―reminds you of the gay men you've known in the past (or hell your Aunt Minnie-remember, the Satir stuff isn't necessarily connected to gender) simply isn't a problem. In which case, the historical associations you have with your current boyfriend simply gives him an ―extra helping of attractiveness. If you are both happy, then this isn't a good time to ―fix what's not broken.

We also know from John Money’s theory the Lovemap (what constitutes your erotic landscape—what floats your boat) is set at an early age—often before you are 8. There have always been androgynous males that many women find attractive. The general pop psych attitude is that it’s related to pre-adolescent feelings of ―safety—in other words, a ―Tween (as they are often called these days) finds a Justin Beiber or Zac Whatsis, or a Jonas brother ―sexy  because they don't register on the scale as strongly masculine. Someone exploring romance for the first time around isn't developmentally ready for sex…so a strongly masculine appearing male doesn’t register—or reads as ―dangerous—which is why the ―bad boy kicks the androgynous romantic off the radar a few years down the road for a lot of girls when she is developmentally ready to ―get physical, and the posters that covered the wall with the earlier heart throb get pulled down and replaced.

Lol—I think of my first lover who told me how religious he was in high school and used to write letters to Jesus, until he hit the developmental stage of realizing he could find ―cute boys who would write back.

Anyway—perhaps your Lovemap was set on ―androgynous at a very early age, and someone in this category will always attract your attention, rather than the big and "dangerous" type.

Mind Reading In Relationships

I really enjoyed something I read in one of your earlier posts.  Not only that, but you're never too old or "experienced" to learn something new. I found a total gem here: "the meaning of your communication is the response that you receive". Although that doesn't apply universally in every communication, it certainly helps explain why we sometimes feel like we aren't -- or can't be -- understood, particularly in social or intimate situations. I intend to put that one to really good use, Professor Fatology, thank you!

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I thank you for your kind remarks. My training/practice is in "Brief Systemic Intervention" which means I tend to work with couples/families rather than individuals and will see them on the average of 8-10 times. That means I need to focus on doing work quickly and also teaching them how to behave differently while not depending on me. One of the major needs is to step away from "blame and shame" and to deal more directly with how people are interacting.

People often get "stuck" in specific patterns. Many of these patterns were taught in their families. But if you grew up in a different family, you might have different patterns. For example, in some families/cultures, you are taught to never ask for something directly. In other families/cultures, if you are asked for something indirectly, you are raised that you really weren't asked for anything at all.

This then begins a dance of one person feeling they are clearly communicating a need and getting angry at the other person for "ignoring" the indirect request. If I had a dollar for every time I've heard this with people trying to figure out a gaining relationship, I could retire. ("I tell him how sexy he'd be with another 30 pounds, and he ignores me!")

If you do "blame and shame" then the "hinting" partner feels the boyfriend is insensitive and cold, and if the other one does "blame and shame" then the "hinting" partner is slammed for not communicating what he "really wants." This is a case where "the meaning of your communication is the response you receive" becomes helpful as you explore what it is you really want to convey. It's also a very useful skill--to have the insight--"Hey, if I'm not getting the response I want--I ALWAYS have the power to change my own behavior." If I've given you what I intend as a compliment--and you don't receive it as such--I have learned how NOT to compliment you, but I haven't yet learned how to actually compliment you. I need to try out a different way of doing so.

On a personal disclosure level...in my adolescence, I had a number of very negative experiences of men attempting to force themselves on me sexually. As a result, I was always conscious of never trying to be too aggressive within a relationship. It took me some time to realize—there are some individuals who really WANT to be dominated, or treated in a more aggressive fashion.

All of the above relate to how often human beings tend to “mind read” their partners. (“I feel X so therefore, he must also feel X.”)—and we often fail to “mind read” very accurately. In the gaining community, I so frequently see “Oh, I can’t tell him I have this kink because he will think I’m bad/crazy/sick/stupid.” That’s mind-reading…the person has already decided how the partner or potential partner will act.

Here’s another “gem”—“If you don’t ask…the answer is always no.”

Do You Ever Regret Fattening Up Your Partner?

Do you ever regret fattening up your partner?

Things like watching them feel discouraged as they struggle to fit into what was one of their favorite pairs of pants. Or when they come home from an awkward doctor's appointment and feel slightly ashamed after being reminded how big they really are? Do you ever feel that twinge of guilt and pitty that it is slightly your fault?

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No.

I think this isn't a simple question, and deserves more than a simple answer. There's a spectrum of folks out there, and those of us who are really "focused" in the gaining community reflect a small portion of those who gain weight, maintain it, or admire the results. In other words, there are obviously people for whom personally gaining weight is an erotic/sensual experience. From some of the comments on this site, there are sometimes when these deliberate gainers have "second thoughts" or question what they are doing...but frequently realize the desire to gain "outweighs" the reasons to lose weight.

On a different level are those who gain weight where the eroticism and sensuality are not the "driving force." There are natural gluttons or hedonists for whom the weight gain is a "side effect" of their appetites and enjoyment. I'm sure for many of these, if they could "have their cake and

eat it too, and not gain weight", they would be very happy. I suspect a lot of straight men "fit" into this category. They may sometimes regret not being thinner, but don't feel it's worth it to diet and exercise and deny themselves pleasure to the point of being smaller.

My SigO, for example, has gone from about 150 pounds to his current 220+ pounds. He's an even more complicated case, where his "thin" state was a direct result of drug abuse/addiction (meth). We have a history of almost 14 years of an “off and on again” relationship, the “off” directly related to his drug abuse. He had gone through an earlier major weight gain, where when he was hired for a "dream" job that required drug testing during his probation, he stopped using meth and packed on the pounds to hit 230 in a matter of months. I think this was a combo of his metabolism being screwed from the meth, and substituting food for the drug. When he was over his probation, he did what he called "the meth diet" and immediately dropped 60 pounds. We were not a couple during this time, so I wasn't involved in his gaining.

After being off meth (long story but so far--a happy ending) he talked about how when he looks at his driver's license photo at 150 (he's 6 feet) he sees himself as looking "sick." I certainly agree. He associates his larger body with being healthier. Me too.

Then he "plays a game" I see a lot of folks play. "Oh, I need to lose 20 pounds! Don't buy any more cookies!" Then that evening..."Is there anything sweet to eat?" Yesterday he told me he wanted to lose 25 pounds over the next 2 months when he returns to Oregon to visit his best friend who was here last week. After dinner tonight, he not only went back for thirds, but about 90 minutes later started making his regular evening nutrella and honey sandwiches (well, to be honest--they are usually honey and peanut butter sandwiches--but naughty me--I picked up a jar of nutrella a couple of days ago) and I notice another 2 pumpkin and chocolate chip cookies are missing from the box.


Is he going to meet his goal of losing 25 pounds in two months at this rate? Do I hope he GAINS 25 more pounds in the next two months?

This comes back to how people tell you what they "ought" to do, as opposed to what they "do," or even "want" to do.

I should also add according to his physical exam  about 6 weeks ago, he's very healthy--no problems with high blood pressure, or blood workup. I am just amazed at the fact someone who is pushing 40 and who has majorly abused drugs for the last 15 years AND has gone from a size 30 jeans to 38 in a little over a year-- is in such good shape. I suspect I would feel a lot differently if I were sneaking him cookies and he was severely diabetic...but he's not. Hah--maybe my careful feeding him lots of healthy foods contributes to his healthy and sexy looking body :)

Flash!

Flash! @ DragonCon!

Richard really enjoyed going to Cons where people would dress as their favorite super heroes.

 For Richard, that was always the Flash, the fastest man alive!

But he always felt bad about how he could never really fit his costume.

It would always hang off of him.

One time Richard took his young nephew with him, but he thought even the kid looked better in his outfit than Richard did.

Even though he was growing into adulthood, the costume always seemed like

it was growing as well, never giving him a chance to fit it. But the world was changing.

Now that over half of the population was overweight,

being large and in charge had become the norm.

Thin and muscled super hero types started to complain they were discriminated against.

It just didn’t seem fair to Richard. He always felt as if he were too small.

 Other people at the Cons always ignored him.

“God, I can’t believe we wasted our time dieting when it’s obvious that fat is the new black.," sighed Jerrod.
"Want a milkshake?” 

When every Superman started showing up fat, the scales tipped.

Fat wasn’t just preferred—it became required.

“Hey-I’m a robot I can’t get fat!” 

Things started changing as people stopped looking like the classic super heroes---

---And started looking a lot healthier.

“At last,” sighed Jabba the Hut, “people are starting to appreciate me for my good looks…”

“I know how much I hated having to stay skinny to be a hero when I was Data!”

Everywhere Richard looked, he felt as if he were the skinniest person in the room.
It was heart breaking for him.

“Richard,” said Seth, “I think you should give up your dream of being a superhero

 and join us as skinny Goths.”

“The Planning committee has sent me over to tell you that until you put on some serious weight,

 you won’t be able to participate in the costume competition.

You’re restricted to Hall stuff, Spidey.”

“It’s so hard,” said Joe, “I’ve been in training for months and

I’ve only gotten the slightest start on a belly.”

“Tell me about it! And we’ve been wearing the fishnet tops so everyone can see every pound
we’ve worked so hard to gain!”

“Yeah, I try to show off what pitiful little gut I got.”

“Don’t you guys listen! I keep telling you scrawny spider trash to get out

unless I see a belly on you!”

“Yeah, I’m in training to get this gut up to code!”

“Just as a suggestion,” John whispered to Richard, “If you wear really loose clothing,

it’s easier to pad yourself to get up to an acceptable size.

You can’t do that in a Flash outfit.”

But Richard soon found out that sometimes they could tell you were padded...

"Oh yeah,” said the guy being interviewed. “Of course I think this whole weight restriction

is unfair! I’d never speak openly about it if I weren’t able to hide my identity.

I don’t want to get roughed up by some heavyweights tonight when I’m out of uniform.

The guys in charge don’t take criticism lightly. But face it—not all of us can be big.”

“You know the rules. Grow up and fit in or stay on the sidelines.
If you want to run with the big dogs,
you gotta BE a big dog, Puppy.”

“Face it—bigger is better!”

“Yeah, yeah, I told you that even with these outfits, I wouldn’t be big enough to get into the good stuff,
but you wouldn’t listen to me.”

“You gonna eat him?”

“Yes, Officer—I saw this bony-assed Flash character trying to get in where he doesn’t belong.”
Richard walked quickly away. He felt so ashamed, he took off his Flash costume.

“I told you I wasn’t padding! I’ve been working on my gut for the last year!”

“You’ve come a long way, honey. Keep up the good work!”

"Never underestimate the power of the 6 pack!"

Richard heard his name called:
“Listen—I’ve been watching you over the years.

I think you have potential. I used to be big—really big.

But I got sick, kid. I’m now just a shadow of myself.

But I know I can coach you to greatness."

“It’s true—if it weren’t for Coach’s help, I’d still be buying pants in the boys department.

You should listen to him!” 

"Well, look—I’ve been trying on my own, and I have nothing to show for it,” Richard said,

 pulling off his shirt and showing…not much of anything.

“Dude—you should just pack it in! You’re too skinny to even waste time on.”

“Yeah, Coach—work with guys like us---stay with the big guys!”

“I didn’t say it would be easy,” muttered the Coach. “But if you do exactly

what I tell you to do, you have a chance. I know a place my brother runs by the water

where you can really concentrate on your bellybuilding.”

Richard committed himself to his new Coach,

and in a few days was at a quiet resort on the coast,

where he met some of the other trainees.

“So, you’re the one Coach sent down,” Bruno said. “I’ve never known him to work with someone as pitiful and thin as you, but I guess he sees something in you. Have a beer and get started.”

“Welcome to the resort,” said Eric. “I know you’re going to like it here.

They’ve got great food.”

 "I can barely see a difference," thought Richard after the first 10 days,

"but the scales say I've put on 11 pounds..."

“I don’t know, Richard—I think you have to kick it up some. You still look as if you’d blow over in a strong wind.” Kyle ordered him a large pizza and a pitcher of beer.

The following week: “191 pounds….maybe I do feel a bit bigger—a bit softer…”

“198! It’s amazing how much fatter I feel at just 7 pounds more…

Whoa! There went the button on my jeans!”

“I’m worried about Richard. He’s just not fattening up at the rate I thought he would,"

the office manager told his wife. Richard overheard him…he took a deep breath and went back to finish the half plate of chicken alfredo he had left. Then he ordered dessert.

"Hey, Richard," called Tony---"you’re looking really good today. Get a haircut or something?”

“I can’t believe how much bigger I’m getting! Richard patted his growing gut. "At last! Oh, yeah, at this rate I’m gonna be able to fill out my Flash outfit the way it was meant to be filled!”

Woohoo! Look at those numbers!”

“YES! I’m gonna make it in time! I’ve got the gut I was always meant to have!

And I'm glad I followed the Coach's advice and stopped shaving my body hair so much."

"I just got off the phone from the Coach, Richard, and I’ve told him how well you’re doing. He says he’s looking forward to seeing you back at the DragonCon as planned.” 

Richard invited some of his friends to join him the last weekend he was at the resort.

“You look freaking amazing,” said Benden, “How do you feel?”
“I feel fat!” smiled Richard, “ I feel great!”

"After seeing your new beard, Richard," said Benden, "I’ve decided I’m also going to grow me some facial hair. What do you think?”

" I know I won’t be the size of some of the others," thought Richard

when he checked into DragonCon, "but I’m willing to put on my costume. I’m ready!” 

"Ewwww,” said the evil cheerleaders, “…you’re so fat!” 

"I tell you, I’m not going to put on a costume again until I’ve packed on at least another 20 pounds. They just made too much fun of me at this size. I want to look more like Flash over there.”

Richard smiled.

"Wow!" said Dustin in his Batman outfit. "Didn’t you used to be Richard?

I mean—you look incredible!”

 Richard felt as if he were walking on air. 
“Richard! You’ve never looked better! Let me feast my Bat eyes on you! 

Give ol’ Batman a ride!”

“Jeez, sorry Richard,” said Dustin, “I didn’t think I was that heavy…You OK?”

“Flash,” said a Thor walking by, “looking good, man!” 

“He’s looking more than good! By next DragonCon he’s gonna be wearing my size!”

"Hey, Richard—you’re sure filling out your outfit a lot better these days!”

Richard kept feeling his pride swell bigger than his new belly.

That reminded him that he was hungry.

"Holy Moly! You're the sexiest Flash I've ever seen!"

"Hey, Flash,” said a pretty, but awfully skinny young man in a little bit of cloth.

“Would you be willing to coach me so I can start fattening up?

I want to be like you.”

"Coach,” said Richard, “I want to thank you for helping me

become the super hero I was meant to be!”

And Richard took the pretty kid up on his offer.

The kid was a lot bigger the following year…

And with Richard's help--even Spiderman was finally able to be a real hero!

And they all lived fattily ever after...