Help Me Help An Unsatisfied Fat Friend

(Another warning to regular visitors--for an unknown reason this site is screwed up.  This means not only are some images I've uploaded not showing up, but the spacing in text is also not what I've done.  So sorry--but I hope you find the text helpful) Hello I'm glad to know there is a guy caring about our community like you,  I always read the posts you make in your blog and, I need to say it are very useful, keep on the good work it is awesome!.

As you know I'm running my own blog at http://elgainer.blogspot.com One of my readers asked me some questions than I'm really not able to answer, I hope you can help me a bit with it. He said than is ok to post it in our blogs as long we won't use his real name or information about how to contact him, so It will be ok if you want to use it at you blog.

Well I'm talking about a big gainer who already has reached its goal, he is pretty fat now, he is in his 30's, openly gay and occasionally looking for sporadic encounters with admirers and people from the community, but he has the idea of getting something more serious with the right guy. He is a Latino guy living in Florida, so he has had the chance to interact with the feeder-gainer community there. I'm actually not sure about how to pose the questions for you. The truth is that even if I know a little about this topic, I thought it will be best to consult first about this particular situation with you. So I'll leave the questions just the way he told it to me, but translated in English:

"Hey, I'm not sure about how to exactly approach to it; I've always had a small "trauma" with the chasers, admirers or feeders about my penis. I Usually feel like they have some kind of obsession for my fat bodie and giant belly, at the degree that they forget  than I want to be touched when we are on the bed and about to have sex, I sould like to recieve oral sex, and other things like the penetration too, but I have the impression than many of them don't even heed my penis. Actually is a very delicate topic because it is like the extent of the excitation is my chubby body, and they forget I'm a man with a penis, so sometimes I have sex felling like I'm not getting any pleasure from it, and in some cases I'm the one who have to do oral sex, striptease, stimulate the guy, masturbate him... but they don't do nothing about me, the doesn't touche me beyond my belly and fat folds.

My question on here is if this behavior with the excitement is an extent of the visual stimulation or more a variant of the intercourse. I wonder about what's exactly the point of it when there is not sexual interest in the penis?, why this kind of situations happen to me and how I can deal with it?. I thought at first instance than it was not very common, but I don't anymore since I had experimented them al least with 5 guys around the community. "

I hope you found it interesting and you can help me a little with it.
Greetings from Mexico from your reader fan.

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Happy to offer some observations and suggestions. Let me begin by saying as someone who has spent years working with heterosexual couples who were usually married, there are many males who are really pretty bad at “love-making,” and I am using that term specifically. They tend to be good at “self-pleasuring” because I suspect they have had a number of years of practicing on themselves. I think for a lot of men who are turned on by well bellied men, much of their focus has been on visual images through Internet sites or magazines. The end result of this is their (and this includes straight men who have more hours spent on porn sites than with actual women) sexual interaction is pretty much “scripted.”  In other words, with relatively little variation, the guy will seek out the object of his desire, and then have internal “movies” inside his head while he stimulates himself to the point of orgasm. This takes little effort on the part of the male, and frankly, the more he does it, the more efficient he gets at it.

The problem arises when such a gentleman actually has to interact with another human being—male or female, slender, or properly padded. If you’re a regular reader of this blog, one of the most common problems I find between couples of any type is what we call “mind-reading”—this is the idea I know if I do a particular behavior, this is what it means—and if I see you do the same behavior, I assume it means exactly the same thing to you.  And a lot of times, the “mind-reading” goes terribly wrong.  In what you’re describing, partners of your well-fed friend are apparently following their “script” or their “mind-movie” and get the results/orgasm they expect.  In their “mind-movie” I suspect they aren’t seeing their partner being equally pleasured, because—hey—he DOESN’T EXIST.  The partner in the “mind-movie” is imaginary.

But your friend is real.  This means he deserves to be treated as a real human being. On a personal level of disclosure, I’ve had experiences where the other person was so “caught up” in his fat fetish, I didn’t have much more reality than a piece of furniture in the room.  As we go into 2013, this is very much like being with someone who is completely focused on their smartphone than noticing you’re sitting next to him.

The best sex is one that is consensual, and where both partners end up being satisfied.  This is complicated by the “kink” aspect of being part of the gaining community.   I’ve shared before as an American Indian, I have long braids that reach my waist.  That means I often attract gay men with a long hair “fetish.” Because I don’t really think of my hair as erotic, to interact with a long hair fetish guy means he gets a lot out of it, and I get pretty much nothing back.  Sound anything like your friend?  And I should also mention, this can happen to larger men who don’t feel erotically connected to their own bodies, who end up feeling used by chasers or guys who like big guys.  With more standard porn, while the dialog and plot is pretty limited, at least there is some functional model of people actually interacting.  But many guys who want big guys don’t have access to the equivalent “fat porn” that would give them some example of how a fat man and his partner engage with each other in a way where they both orgasm.

Here’s something you might appreciate as a Latino, as I do as a person of color. If you date outside your ethnicity, particularly with people of European ancestry, you have a lifetime of being exposed to European/Euro-American culture from movies, books, television and work. But it means you end up having to “teach” a White partner about what it means to be from a community of color, where we may do things in a different way.  For example, many communities of color teach their members not to ask for something directly, but “hint at it,” or ask for it indirectly.  For a lot of White people, they will never even register that something was requested because it wasn’t asked for directly.

And this brings us back to your friend. If he’s not getting what he wants out of the interaction, then he’s being exploited.  He’s being used, and that’s apparently how he feels about it. This means he may have to take a lot more direct action at being very specific at negotiating what the expected roles are between the two of them. This negotiation takes place before the clothes come off or a body part gets exposed. If he wants oral satisfaction from his partner, he needs to be upfront about it before he performs on his partner. Remember, since a number of men are inexperienced (and very poor) at pleasing their partners, they may not be very good at what it is they are supposed to do.  In some Latino cultures, there is also a macho aspect where as long as you’re in the “active” insertive role, it means your community won’t consider you to be gay.  That means your friend may face a percentage of men who will be happy to receive a blow job, but will refuse to reverse roles because that would mean “they are gay.” Just so, such a man may be willing to perform insertive anal sex, because by their logic, your friend would be the “gay” one, but he’ll think of himself as straight because he’s the “macho” one.

On a completely different level, you haven’t shared exactly how large your friend is. For some very large men, depending on the size of the penis of the “top,” insertion may be challenging.  If this is the case, even a guy who is willing, may not physically be able to top your friend. There are some resources out there that offer suggestions for how to more effectively have sex with really large people. Another solution is for your friend to have appropriate sized dildos or other sex toys available for his partners to use. An example of a book on this subject is Big Big Love, Revised: A Sex and Relationship Guide for People of Size (and Those Who Love Them) by Hanne Blank. The revised version has more inclusion for gay and bisexual men. Again, not knowing how large your friend is, for some (but not all) men, the more they gain, the more fat accumulates around their penis (this is sometimes called by the slang term in English “fupa” or “fat upper pubic area”), so their penis can become so surrounded by fat, it becomes difficult to access. If this is the case with your friend, some of his partners may have little or no experience in how to do effective oral sex on him.  Again, the book can offer some guidelines of how best to handle this.  You mention your friend is Latino, and lives in a very multi-ethnic community. Many Latino men are uncut, and like many men of color (and these days, an increasing number of White Americans) may need some additional attention to hygiene issues before oral sex, although there are certainly some gay men of various ethnicities who are especially turned on by what in English slang is called a “cheesy” penis. This is also technically called “smegma,” but I don’t know the Spanish word for it. This would be an excellent example where an experience that’s exciting to one person will be a major turn-off for another. This is where negotiation plays such an important component.

I once heard another therapist explain a BTN relationship.  BTN stands for “Better Than Nothing.” The question a person has to learn to ask is—“At what point do I accept the idea I deserve more than a BTN?”

 

I’m not saying this is easy for your friend. It means learning and practicing a whole new skill set of how to negotiate sex with a potential partner, and also learning to say “No,” if the other person doesn’t want a fair exchange.  Your friend will also have to (and he needs to do this WAY before he is in front of a potential partner) figure out what is and isn’t a “deal breaker” in negotiation.  In other words, in an ideal world (or how your friend directs his own “mind-movie”) your friend would be orally pleasured as well as enjoy being a bottom-and for all I know, a large piece of chocolate cake afterwards. But in the company of a real flesh and blood partner, he may choose to settle with oral and a dildo, or accept the fact a particular partner simply isn’t going to pleasure him orally. The Big Big Love book can also offer some additional suggestions of how a wonderfully large body can be used in sexual ways.  You haven’t shared how your friend attracts his partners, but if he does it through personal ads or on-line profiles, he can be very upfront about what he expects in bed, which will allow him to eliminate some potential partners who will be just as unsatisfactory as his previous people.

 

Finally—if your friend doesn’t start being direct about his own expectations, after at least five interactions that have been unsatisfactory for him, I’m going to predict interactions six and seven are going to be just as much as a disappointment.  The other side of this—if a partner—male or female—or other—uses the opportunity to teach a partner how to be a better lover/sex partner, he not only gets more pleasure for himself, but he leaves a lover who will be in much more demand for other partners as well—so it’s what we call in English a “win/win” situation, or as is also said in English, “you play it forward.”  This means you do something that you realize can benefit someone you may never meet, but the law of Karma suggests this will still benefit you on some level.

 

Why Do We Gain Intentionally?

(Readers--for no reason I can understand or correct, all the images I've added to this post are not showing up when I view the blog.  I have tried to reload them to no success.  Hopefully the text will be useful, but the images really made a difference) Hey Professor Fatology.

I have a question regarding about why we want to gain fat intentionally. I have read that usually our personality, wants, needs and other ideas situated about one's self are created. Or drawn from external factors. So basically is the want to be fat caused by external factors for example:

Many of us strive to be like our parents at a young age and we learn at an early age from our parents on how our roles are going to be like whilst we develop.

 Another example to explain my example:

A child has grown up with a father who  is overweight. Striving to learn from his father and trying to subconsciously be like him. He has a desire to gain fat and be fat as his father. Another factor could be that his father who was fat, had left the family at an early age, and the child has no influence to learn from and manages to find bits of information of the lost male influence in his life and learn from that. Still attaining that being fat is like being his father, bringing a lost relationship to him. And soon somehow confuses being fat as a more erotic sensation and finds he wants to get fatter


Do you see where I'm going with this?
(You can use this as blog post)

From Curious Gainer

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Dear Curious Gainer,

 

Perhaps it would best to review a personal feeling that I have a spectrum or continuum exists within the gaining community.  Put another way, there are extreme ends on a scale, where for some individuals there is an overwhelming erotic component to gaining, being fat, or being with someone who is, that is very similar to a sexual orientation. For a person with this sort of “sexual orientation,” it’s not going to be able to change any more than you can “change” a true gay man into a straight one no matter how much “quack therapy” you force him to experience. I’m deliberately using “quack therapy” precisely because every major psychological, psychiatric, and medical professional association in the United States (and a similar movement is happening in the U.K.) has formally denounced reparative/ “pray away the gay” efforts. In fact, the state of California has just passed a law making it illegal for adolescents to be subjected to this sort of “repair” attempt” to “fix” something that’s not broken—and these terrible efforts have clearly led to the depression and frequent suicides of young people who have had to go through them.

 

Going back to the analogy of sexual orientation, there are clearly people who are bisexual. There is also a continuum of bisexuals, where some are more attracted to men than women. Just so, I suspect there are people in the gaining community who are erotically attracted to fat people, but to some extent have no problem being in a relationship with someone who isn’t.  But just as a male bisexual may be more drawn to another male, there are very likely people in the gaining community who are happy to be with a lean partner, but would be even happier if the lean partner porked up.

 

Then there are “civilians” (as they are called in the gaining community) for whom fat isn’t a major erotic drive, but isn’t a “deal breaker.” These may include the folks you describe in your e-mail. In my experience, this will include people who belong to cultures where it’s expected people who become a couple will gain weight, and being fat is a clear signal to that community the couple is doing well—it’s “happy fat.” I think this is a clear example of what you’re thinking about. The couple (or the children, where some cultures see chubby children as “healthy” children) aren’t really focused on the eroticism of weight gain, or larger waists, but are conditioned to think of it as part of adulthood, or being successful.

 

There are undoubtedly some people who follow the path you’ve suggested.  I’m thinking of a specific individual whose father abandoned the family when he was four years old.  His earliest memories were taking his father’s old t-shirts, putting them on to experience the “smell” of his father, and stuffing pillows underneath his t-shirt to try to be more like his missing father. As a family therapist I’ve also seen things can go “both ways.”  For example, a child may try to model himself after his father/parents/relatives who are well bellied.  I have also seen children who are so angry at their parents/relatives, they make a decision to do the exact opposite of what they feel the “other” does. As a family  therapist, I don’t usually get to see people who are doing really well—I tend to see people in crisis or who are troubled. Just so, when a kid “acts out”, he or she doesn’t do it at “random.” The “acting out” child of a teacher will “act out” by failing a class. The kid of a cop will get arrested.  And you don’t want to know what the acting out children of Preachers do. Some children who are raised with parents who are health freaks will “rebel” by eating junk food and gut growing, just as some children raised by parents who don’t hold back at the dinner table rebel by refusing to eat, or upping their exercise to stay skeletal. Some of these behaviors start up as a type of “rebellion” and then end up being a very hard to end.

And here’s what I want to stress, because I have worked for years in a profession that is based on the “medical model,” where the first question is, “What’s wrong?” with a person. In many cases, this is a really bad question to start with—because, as with sexual orientation, there isn’t “something wrong,” but simply what these days the medical profession calls, “a normal sexual variation.”  This brings us to the idea of “kinks,” where, for example, being tied up for some people is an exciting spice to an on-going relationship, but not something that’s vital to a relationship.  This is different from the Fifty Shades of Gray “thing,” where it’s a “lifestyle.” Gaining for some people, or being with a gainer is an exciting spice for some people, a lifestyle for some, and a “meh” for others, where a partner adding pounds isn’t any more erotic than him having a receding hairline, but isn’t something that ends the relationship because the other elements of their relationship are what counts.

Will Women (and my family) Want The Big Guy I Want To Be?

(I ask that if you were to put this in your blog not to mention my name)

I just recently found your website and after looking around it I think you might finally be able to help me with a question I've been keeping inside of me.

I'm at an age of fifteen and have always wanted to gain weight. A story you might have heard before: tall and skinny; not really that big, bulky, or outstanding. I really enjoy the thought of becoming a massive guy with a giant gut hanging out in front of me, and whenever I look at a guy like that I get turned on and think "I want to be as fat and big as he is". 

I haven't had the courage to start gaining the weight to get to my dream of about 400 pounds (which I plan on getting to), and here's why: my family is fairly skinny, fit, and into sports and exercise. I don't want to show that I want to become a huge guy and put some distance between us. I'm quite a good athlete and I don't want to disappoint my family by wasting the body I have now to become that giant guy.

I also find it sexually attractive to have a bulging gut. It makes me feel like I would stand out. For the gut to say that I'm bigger, heavier, and more solid than all the other guys. I want to be a gainer and put on a lot of weight in fat. I want to have extra flab on my body that jiggles and bounces as I walk. To stick out in front of me and give me trouble in any daily activity. I want people to be attracted to me from the pounds of weight in my belly and enlarged body parts the same way I'm turned on thinking about it.

Now here's the problem: I don't want to be in a gay sexual relationship with other guys.

I know other guys who are gainers and encouragers are gay and enjoy these thoughts and doings the same way I do, but I don't want to go out with another guy. When I look at a overweight guy I find the gut attractive and get turned on thinking of what it would be like if I had those extra pounds. But I don't want to be with him, I want to be him.

So is it possible for me to really be straight and just have a gut/fat fetish? Would any women like me if I were to be fat? And if not should I go ahead with the gaining anyway? 

I find girls attractive and want them to be the ones who were to like me and get into a sexual relationship with if I were chubby, but when I started thinking about the whole gay gainer thing I had second thoughts of who I would really be appealing to.

(No offense to any gay men reading this- I just don't want to mate with a guy)

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Let me start with the last question.  There are a lot of gay men who strive to have a body that would be on the cover of a fitness magazine, and they catch the attention of a lot of straight women, but that’s not the audience they’re trying to attract.  It just happens.  In the same way, a lot of straight men get freaked out by lesbians who wear flannel, cut their hair in a butch way and don’t wear make-up—but trust me, these lesbians are not trying to attract straight men.

Let me give you a word of advice to avoid growing up to be a douchebag.  When someone says, “You look really good,” the correct response is, “Thank you.”  The wrong one is, “I only value positive feedback from someone I want to mate with.” A lot of women really admire a man who is so secure in his own body and sexuality he isn’t threatened by someone he doesn’t want to mate with who finds him attractive. This includes gay men.  Good on you for being 15 and aware enough to realize you want to ask your question without being offensive to gay men.

Now, let’s go back to the first part of your e-mail.  It’s a normal teen thing to wonder if the people you love will love and support you. True love is unconditional.  That means they love you even if you mess up.  And in some cases, you may think you’ve messed up, but the people you love just accept you because of who you are—not what you do. Jeez-if I could just get more people to believe that, most therapists would lose a lot of business.

Your “final” growth doesn’t stop until you’re around 24 or so.  That means at the age of 15, you really don’t know what you’re going to look like when you’re ten years older—or twenty, for that matter. And speaking as someone old enough (ouch) to be your father (and if your mother is a member of the Yakama tribe where we both graduated from the same university, I might actually be your father)—in ten or twenty years, your parents  may not be as “skinny and into sports” as they are now.   You might want to check on how both sets of your grandparents look.

Can you admire a belly on another guy and wish you had it and not want to have sex with him?  Absolutely, just as most straight men who cheer their favorite quarterback in the NFL may fantasize about being him without wanting to mate with him. You can also dream about being James Bond from the movies without dreaming about being in bed with him.  It’s what we call in psychology “being inspired” or “motivated” by someone.

Also—there are a number of sports where being a big guy is a major plus.  I’m not just talking about sumo wrestling.  But I went to high school in Oklahoma (so not bragging about that) where high school wrestling was more popular at the time than football.  Do you know what heavy-weight category Olympic wrestlers look like? Do you know what Olympic shot-put stars look like?  Do you know what (I don’t really know what to call them, but I know what they look like) Olympians who ride in the back of toboggans look like? Do you know what the “strongest men in the world” contest winners look like? Or world-class Powerlifters?  There are also all sorts of sports—including those available in high school or college where guess what? Fans admire a big guy who is a big guy. And that includes female fans.

You have all sorts of options available to you where you can have it all. There are sites like www.fantasyfeeder.com where there are many women who prefer a larger guy. There are also women who are turned on by the idea of a big strong man who can “protect” them who don’t want someone who is “tall and skinny,” but a man who is “more solid.” Announce to your family you want to start "bodybuilding" and part of professional bodybuilding means you have to "bulk up," which basically means when you're not in a contest where you need to have a single digit bodyfat percentage is -- wait for it--you're "fat." Most people don't know when they see photos of professional (or amateur) bodybuilders on stage, they only look that way for a day.  Afterwards they stop starving themselves and quickly add 50 or more pounds. If your family has a "fitness fetish" then it may help you to find a recognized sport where being a heavyweight is a plus.  This means certain positions in football, wrestling,or bodybuilding.

Are There Sites For Straight Guys Who Like Bellies?

Hi Professor,

I'm a guy who has had an interest in bellies for as long as I can remember. However, I know I'm straight as I'm not sexually or mentally attracted to men (except their bellies). I've joined Grommr several times in order to look at guys with bellies but I find that conversations on there turn sexual quite quickly and I'd like somewhere to chat to other straight guys who are interested in guys' bellies, and guys' bellies only! Is there anywhere online you can request?

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Just to let you know, there are a number of guys who have felt overwhelmed by what they felt was an “over-sexualization” on Grommr. There are a couple of places I’d recommend.  One is a primarily “straight” site that has an emphasis on those who admire larger women.  But there are also lots of straight men on board who want to be “mutual gainers” (where both partners gain) or want a female partner who wants a guy who is only going to get bigger. The site also is “gay-friendly” but is definitely not anything like Grommr, although it’s not at all uncommon for men to leave positive comments. In many cases, these aren’t gay or bisexual men, but are giving compliments in the same way someone on your sports team would yell out “great job” when you hit a homerun or made a touchdown, although in this case it’s because you’ve just outgrown your jeans.

Another very “safe” place is one of the oldest and most established ones—www.bellybuilders.com, which can be thought of more as a “community.” You’ll get lots of support, questions answered, and “way to go, dude” comments, without the “wanna cam and jerk off” element.  Although you’re not gay, I should probably also mention to readers of this blog there is a new google plus site--https://plus.google.com/u/0/communities/114874889573950966087?cfem=1#communities/114874889573950966087  “Gay Gainer Guys Guild” that is brand-new, and was established as a “non-horn dog” site to differentiate itself from Grommr, so you don’t get the major sexual vibe you can on the other site.  For that reason, I suspect they’d be a welcoming group to straight gainers who aren’t interested in having sex with guys.

How Do I Make Him Care About Me The Way I Want?

Hello prof!

I've discovered your blog recently, via grommr. And I should really thank you, because i found answers to some of my questions i've been looking everywhere. Its really useful thing you do.

Btw you can post some parts or all this message to your blog, don't think my russian  friends will discover it haha, and if they do i'll know they are into gaining for sure haha.

ok, first i tell you some backstory of my gaining experience, and then i'll ask you some questions that bother me. ok?

---I discovered i have a thing for fatter bellies early in childhood. I'm 24 btw. As i was slim, those chubby or fat bellies caught my attention, i was kinda intrigued, and wondered how it is to have some extra fat on your belly. And i felt i like the view of fat belly, see how it jiggles etc. well you know that. I remember i puffed my belly out, rubbed it with oil haha, and later (at 13-14 years) i actually begun to stuff. Ok, i had fantasies of getting kind of a beer belly and like i'm showing it off and my friends make fun of me and rub and poke my belly, and i like it. Actually i always wanted to do this for real - like to get really bloated and show off my belly. But i was shy. I thought ppl think of me as fit (as i go to swimming pool do sports etc) and was kinda scared to do it in front of crowd, but on the other side i wanted it. Sounds lil bdsm to me but well, continue with my story.

 I also remember i kinda fell in love? with a guy 2 years older than me. I guess it was love. I was 13. I felt really strong attraction to him, i liked how he looked, acted, i wanted to be like him. Surprisingly, i wasn't really obsessed to see him shirtless or see his belly. I thought it will be good if he go shirtless but didn't want to force it whatever  I wanted to became friends with him really hard, so (it sounds weird to me even after all these years hehe) i talked to him, accidentally massaged his neck and shoulders, hugged him etc, and i hanged out with him everywhere. And I was the one who called him etc. But don't think i was pushing him to hang out with me. I always respected other people's feelings, and wasn't annoying or anything, like there were no day without me in his life.

I managed to show off my bloated belly to my best friend(at the time) (I was 14). As it was summer and he came to my house nearly everyday, I had a time to prepare. So before he came, i eat a lot and drank a lot of water, so my belly became really round. And when we sat together doing homework (at the summer, isn't it weird? haha) i lifted up my shirt , and he noticed my bloated belly, he laughed at it and started to poke my bellybutton. I really liked it. Soon we started to wrestle and ended up with him sitting on me and slapping my bloated belly. I got what i wanted and i liked it. 

There were another 2 friends, i hanged out with them and it happened, that we played rock paper scissors once, and when i lost i lifted up my shirt (i was bloated) and told one of them to rub or poke my belly. And he done it. So from that time we started to hand out together and we played 'rock-paper-scissors' and i bloated before we hang out and it always ended up with them rubbing or poking my bloated belly. (i was 14-15 at the time and they were 13-14). I believe it was like sex to me. (i didn't experienced sex with a girl yet, and with a guy too, but well, some of guys sucked my dick, i guess that can count. I don't want to have sex with guys(i mean anal), nor i want to suck their ***. I'm puzzled with this a bit.

My theory is: to me belly play or playing with other's bellies =sex (like straight and gay ppl understand it). Am I right?

I thought i'm the only one in the world with a belly thing. Well you heard a lot of this stories, i discovered youtube and realised there are others, i also found out its called a fetish etc etc. It was a good thing, i knew i'm different, but not crazy haha

So college years was not so interesting unfortunately, because i studied where the most of my mates at uni were girls. So again i missed guys attention. I befriended one guy (i didn't liked his appearence, but he was funny and became a good friend after all) and he prob became the first man ever who i told about i like to pig out and showed him my bloated belly, and he even participated in some of my videos. I told him this kind of vids are very popular on youtube and he agreed hehe. Important thing that he is not into bellies, he's just a really good friend who understand my fetish and helps me with my vids hehe, only when i really ask him.

Of course i actively used internet, chatted with guys from all over the world, showed my belly on cam, liked the attention. but it all was virtual and i missed actual belly rubbing and all, and besides i wanted to rub and play with someone's belly too.

I was 22 i think.

And. A thing happened. I met a guy. I think i can tell you now i loved him from the first sight. I just couldn't took my eyes of him. He was really attractive, kinda buff but he was really slim, just muscular and short, and i liked his face and the way he talks, he acts etc, and i wanted to become a best friend with him. Again, like at 13, i didn't thought much about belly thing at first, of course later i became interested to see his belly etc, but at first i admired him a lot and wanted his attention and to be best friends with him. 

As you see i don't want to have sex. To cuddle, to rub each one's bellies, maaaybe kiss(not sure) (i kissed guys but felt nothing special about it), play with them, feed each other etc is just enough for me, if you ask me about how intimate i wanted to be with him.

And, well, some kind of drama began for me. At first, i didn't know how to approach him (i was shy, now i became ok again. It was a period of time i was shy). And when i approached him my heart began to boom boom and my mind kinda got clear haha, i really felt this way. So it was hard to me. But i found a way to talk to him, and i tried to talk to him from time to time to get to know him etc, soon i started to give him birthday presents. I can't say we were close at the time i started giving him presents and i wonder what he thought.. He worked as admin in our computer class (part time job to pay his education, so i often went to him).

I found out he likes football. He runs studen't football club at our uni. So one day (after 2 year when i first met him, still there was no progression in our relationships, i called him from time to time to know how he is doing etc, just to keep in contact with him.  so one day i offered him help with posters and site design for football league (i'm good at photoshop and now i work as graphic designer). He agreed. And we started to chat more often, It was about work, but i was happy i can just talk to him more often. Soon, after a year of doing work for football club, i started to help him with other his projects, had to do a lot more work. 

Important thing that he met a new girlfriend at the time and spent a lot of time with her. I was lil jealous about it, especially when i saw them hugging going together. (fall 2011)

Ok i will skip to this year (fall2012). Ok so i helped him a lot, gave him really good presents(he said it himself, because i gave him presents that fit his character and the situation. YOu know its when you know what you should give to a man to make him really happy. I always been careful at choosing a present for him, Christmas 2011 present was so good, i thought he'll hug me so happy he was, but he said thank you man for real and we shaked hands.) 

I forgot to tell you about important thing. He got fatter recently. He was slim, with no belly, he had 6pack, but now he has a little belly that drives me crazy haha. I always complement him with it, or ocasionally rub it when i have a chance. He is ok with it. He smiles when i do it. Once we were heading home together (in the winter i often called him to take a walk together to home (we have to get to the same busstop), and we talked about sports etc, and suddenly he said he got fatter (i didn't tell ppl or him that he got fatter, sill kinda shy to tell this), and his belly got so big like a whole piece of fat. And! He said he will take a photo of it and will show it to me. And asked me not to show it to other ppl. I was absolutely shocked to hear this. He offered to do a thing i was dreamt of himself. oh boy. Of course i promised him i won't show and he said he will stuff himself hard and will take a photo.

So my question is: What should i do to achieve my ultimate goal? (to have some intimacy with him like bellyrubbing together or maybe stuffing together (kinda tricky as he says he's busy always and i guess busy with his girfriend)

So. Finally (last week) i got so depressed with this situation (it got bit better since we chatted a bit and i met him every week before it, we meet to discuss football league works, very brief meetings), i decided to meet up with him tet-a-tet and discuss our relationships.

A day before on a football league meeting he offered people to tell what they dislike about him to see what he is doing wrong in ruling the league. So i told him it a good idea, after all it helps you to get better. So first i told him my concept of relationships. That they are like scales, and if you do something good to your friend, the white ball appears, and if you do something bad or not doing something when you should, a black ball appears. So i told him in my eyes scales is 50/50 and it depends on him what will happen next, because i close to 'break up' with him, because i'm not satisfied with our friendship.  Then i told him i try to be his best friend not only his business partner. And he does not value it. He said that he has 3 groups of friends and with 2 of them he is not close like best friends in mine understanding - its his football team and his business team. 3rd one is his gf. there is also a 4th group - his school friend, he knows him for 6 years. The reason why he don't go further in friendship - is he don't want to make business with friends, because when we begin to earn a lot of money the quarrels would begin. I told i'm totally agree with this point of view. But i said there's always exceptions. 

He asked me what i understand when i say friendship. I was unable to say it clear at the time. In the very end i told him about his belly, i told him he got so fat (in a jokingly way) and poked his belly few times. He said he goes to exercise and offered me to go with him , i said i cant afford it at the time (really bit too expensive for me) but will once i can, and i reminded him about the photo he own me for 9 month hehe, he said he will stuff himself hard today and take a photo of his belly. I said his belly distract me hehe, and he said what is this some kind of belly-mania? i told him yeah, i think its funny. He said i probably have a gallery of bellies on my pc. I couldn't tell the truth, i just laughed. 

So is there anything i can do to become his best friend, and is this possible at all?

It was Tuesday we had this talk. Wednesday i met with him again i gave him his money. When we talked about friendship and business, he reminded me of a summer. When an organisation where he worked owned me a money for work i've done, and they delayed the pay everytime, and finally they gave the money he told me, and he gave me  that money. But when we talked about friendship and business he reminded me of this and asked me what i thought, i said i thought this stupid big bosses can't pay me the money. He said no, you thought that I stole your money, they never paid, i gave you my own money. I was shocked. Telepathy is an enemy to every relationship. (you said about it in your blog)  I told him about it, and said i trust him a lot and that was really stupid and i know he wouldn't stole money (i know its really so, he is fair). But he managed to return me 2/3 of money as a bonus for all the work i've done for him, i was sceptic about so sudden bonus but had to take it, he wanted to give me all (payings for my future work as he said) but i really protested. He wrote me today again about work things.. so we still chatting and i'll see how it will go.

P.S lil addition. I said i was shy about showing off my bloated belly. Now i more confident with it, i even posted some pics on my fb profile (my way of finding out if my friends are into it). Also i sent some photos to me friends (i sent them to my significant one, but doubt he saw them, at least no comments were made at it was time ago before we started to communicate closer). and they laughed at it and overall was positive about it but no one liked it the way gainers like it. thanks to this i became more self-concerned about my belly. but still kinda shy to talk about i want to gain or that i've gained with my friends, well, mainly because i don't have some here. just office mates. And my SigO. .. Well, i have one friend i visited him in the other town, and i lift my shirt up and show my belly to him and comment how fat i got lol compared to him and he rubs my belly and i rub his. Kinda shy to do this when my SigO near, well mainly because we don't hang out, i didn't had a chance to talk him tet-a-tet since tuesday you know **************************************************************************** (BTW, at the writer's suggestion, I edited out a lot of information, since he went into a lot of details) Sigh, this is one of the things I hate about doing this site.  See, in doing actual therapy, I would rarely if ever tell a patient (a patient gets meds) or a client (a client doesn’t), “Oh, here’s what your problem is, and here’s what you do to solve it.”  A good therapist is a sort of “guide,” who helps someone head in a more useful direction—but with a really good therapist, the client makes his or her own decision to change.  See- if a therapist tells you  “do x” and your life improves, it’s easy to become dependent upon the therapist to continue to tell you what to do. But if a therapist is a good guide, he or she can not only point you in the right direction, but step aside so you never need him/her again.  You learn to make your own healthy decisions that shape your life. But that also means if I tell you on a site like this, “do x” and it’s so not what you want to hear, you automatically reject it, and keep doing what’s made you unhappy for such a long time. Which means, ultimately I haven’t done anything helpful. But since you asked—here’s the bottom line.   As the movie title goes, “He’s Just Not That Into You.” No matter how much you want him, and ask me how you should manipulate him to be the person you want him to be—it’s just not going to happen. He’s been very clear he’s arranged his life into compartments. He’s cataloged relationships into specific places (including business associates and “girlfriend”) and you’re just not going to fit into his scheme of things as a boyfriend, bellyguy, or significant other. I’ve been around for so long, I’ve seen this happen over and over again. “A” wants “B,” but “B” doesn’t want “A” in “that way.” “A” ups the ante (is that too much slang? It’s from certain card games, where you invest in “the pot” in the hopes of winning, but you haven’t won yet, and you get to the point, of “Do I keep investing more and more in the hopes I hit the jackpot, or do I go ahead and accept the fact I can lose everything I’ve invested, so I shouldn’t put even more into the pot, but simply ‘fold’ and move on with my life to find someone who can eventually love/care about me in the way I want to be loved/cared about?” Your friend has reacted the way a lot of straight men do around gay/bisexual men who desire them (and even if you don't now identify as gay or bisexual, your behavior is the same as a gay or bisexual man).  They feel really complimented. They feel desirable, even when the audience they really want to notice them (girlfriends) won’t turn out the way they want. It’s a “no lose” situation for the straight guy.  “No matter what I do, this guy will still be there for me.  No matter how little I give to him, he will always give more. If I ignore him, he will actually increase what he offers to me.  He will give me gifts that will be far more valuable than anything I have ever given him.  Even if I tell him I’ve interfered with his income, he’ll actually end up being grateful to me.” He's also not stupid--he's already guessed you have a "belly thing" and a "belly picture collection." If gives you one of his, he'll only be one of many.  There's a Leonard Cohen poem that talks about him giving his fingerprint to the person he loves (your fingerprint is unique) and then he opens a drawer and all the many fingerprints others have given in the same way fall out. Some people don't want to be just "one of the many." Just so—why would he ever change your shared dynamic?—he gets so much of what he values, without ever having to give anything back to you that you value other than a little attention, and a “pat on the head.”  He doesn’t even give you what you’ve specifically asked for—such as a photo of his bloated belly. And again—here’s what you so don’t want to hear—if you really push for what you want, his response will be to push back on you as a form of rejection.  The most you can hope for is to get him drunk enough that for one short evening he responds the way you want him to—and then for the rest of your lives he will blame you for “making” him do what he did. There is a country western song called the Gambler—the chorus is: You got to know when to hold 'em, know when to fold 'em, Know when to walk away and know when to run.” It’s time to walk away and find a guy who will want you in the way you want him.  This is a guy-if you continue on this path, who will accept what you offer, and go home to his girlfriend/wife.  He may accept (on rare occasions, particularly when drunk) certain behaviors from you—but the bottom line is—you’ve been paying for it. I think you deserve more than to “pay for it.”  I think you should find a relationship of equals. Someone who can not only give back to you, but will enjoy doing so. That’s what you deserve.  Will you get this with him? Sadly, no. but please remember this—if you can find someone who can treat you as an equal, the experience will be so much better than anything this guy can ever offer you. You've spent literally years investing in this relationship, and you've framed it in "scales" where in a relationship you want, both sides are going to offer something of recognized value. This man has failed to do that to your satisfaction for years.  That's not going to change.  And to give him credit--he's been completely upfront with you of how he makes sense of his world.  In my mom's language, we don't really have a word for "friend."  When pressed, we'll tell people the word is Yelp, but that word really means "trading partner." It doesn't have the meaning the English word does.  For us, in our language, others are "enemy," "family," or "trading partner," where there is a definite "accounting" that goes on, where like you've suggested, it's like "scales" and a white ball/black ball, where you strive to be fair in your exchange. I don't think he even counts as a Yelp to you because even you've been clear he's failed to offer a balanced relationship.  And from what you've told me--he will never be "family" to you (which includes a Significant Other/Mate/Lover).  You deserve more than you will ever get from him. And finally--does someone like a therapist, who has been trained to know how to change behavior--have the "power" to teach you to "control" a person to do what you want him to do? I won't lie to you. Really experienced psychologists do indeed have "the power" to manipulate the behaviors of (some but not all) people. This is done all the time in politics and marketing. But the question you really need to ask--do you really want someone you have to "magic"/manipulate to want you back? That will never be a relationship of partners/equals.  And like misers who spend their entire lives solely devoted to becoming richer--if your efforts are only to get him to do what you want--here's the end of "the Devil's bargain:" Once the person you've manipulated to do what you want him to do discovers what you've done--he'll hate you for it.  People who really care for someone don't manipulate him.  Negotiation is not manipulation--it's a bargaining or arrangement between equals.  To the credit of your friend--at least in talking about the football league, he's explored the idea of how equals will be open about what can be better in a relationship.  I so hope you find someone you deserve who will be happy to treat you better than this man.