Hello Professor,
I've just been spending time on your website and certainly appreciate the time you've taken to share your insights and knowledge with the gainer community. I really want to have a greater understanding of my personal quest with this obsession of mine. Let meprovide this email to you about me. I am certainly open to how you suggest we proceed should you be inclined to respond. I am hoping you receive this and are able to help.
I've had a desire to be fat for a long time. I am currently 57 years old and have always noticed an interest in the footballer gone soft look. And being only 5ft 6in, have always wished to be a bigger guy and of course, there is only one way to go with that...and that's OUT! :)
But with the internet and the vastness of info, websites and the growing interest specifically in weight gain, this "interest" really seems to have become an obsession. By that I mean, I want to be fat and think about it everyday. I spend far too much time on the internet pursuing this desire via the bellybuilders website and youtube, looking at pictures of fat guys.
I did go to counseling about 3 years ago, trying to get an understanding of this fetish turn obsession in the hopes of resolving and controlling this desire to be fat and enjoying the fat male body. My counselor, through talk therapy provided me with the observation that my desire to be bigger "may" be due to the fact that I was sexually abused at age 5 or 6 by a fat man. I do remember a neighbor bringing me in to his house, no one else was there and he began to upzip my zipper. Somehow I recall getting away from him and running very, very fast. I was obviously scared and literally RAN away. I don't recall ever reliving this (which he asked me to do) or discussing the situation with anyone until 3 years ago. It was very frightening then and he said it's not at all unusual to "bury" this experience out of one's consciousness for years and years, which I did. But in order to "control" or "deal" or "handle" this, I did bury the experience and somehow "turned this fear into a fetish of being fat in an effort to "be in control". I may not be using all the right words but I think you get the idea.
At the same time, I've admitted to myself and close family members that I am gay. I am attracted to looking at fat men, good looking soft footballers...and wanting to be fat. Well, I did get married along the way, we had two wonderful children. My wife and I recently have separated. She knows about my fat desires and gayness of course. While I was very secretive, fearful, deceitful and all the rest, I could no longer hold the secrets in. I intently was hoping to have her see me looking on the internet at the various gainer websites. Cowardly, I know. But I did. And she did see me one day about 10 years ago looking at a gainer website. It frightened her understandably, causing alot of confusion and angst. Well, we remained married not talking about any of this for years and years. Finally, when the kids left and we "experienced the empty nester", things did come to a head. WE have had an amicable separation which will lead to divorce at some point, I believe.
But, here I am today. I need some help to help be understand, deal and meet this head on. It's really become a life issue. Here are my questions:
1) Is this something I can overcome (because I want to) like overcoming cigarettes or living as a recovering alcoholic, or not?
2) Is this an obsession? I've read that obsessions cannot be overcome. That is depressing. Is that true?
3) I pad more and more but really do want to stop. But this desire is overwhelming, I think, in my efforts to sexually fulfill these desire...is that what I am doing? Is its so wrong, so terribly wrong. But I am no controlling it. Can I ever be a recovering gainer/padder? WHAT IS BEHIND ALL THIS? I am successful in many areas of my life but this issue has hurt and killed my marriage. What do I do, who do I turn to?
4) I have not had sex with a man ever, let alone a fat man. I do have a strong desire to play with a fat man. Is there any insight you can provide regarding my desire to be fat, my desire to play with a fat man?
I know this is alot to through down at you. But, if nothing else, can you give me some direction or advice as to next steps? I am very open to going to counseling and want to, but I am hoping you can give me some advice, at least, as to what kind of counselor I need to go to. Or can we have a long distance counseling relationship? Any thoughts from you would be very much appreciated. Thank you so much.
Regards,
P.
Dear P,
Well, my goodness, this is a lot to think about, but it does reflect over half a century of your experience.
For legal and ethical purposes, let me clearly state that while what I do may be therapeutic, it is not “therapy” long distance or otherwise. I offer you information intended for educational purposes.
Words can be very powerful tools. One of the things I learned from teaching in a medical school is—the only difference between medicine and poison is the dosage. Just so, there are some words—like obsession –that I am uncomfortable using in general discussions, since it has very specific pathological meaning, and most people when they use it, don’t intend it in that way. Instead, they’ll talk about being “obsessed by this new flavor of ice cream.” There’s even a man’s cologne named “obsession.” What makes me uncomfortable is how you seem to be using it as an “either/or” statement—being obsessed means I’m either powerless in how I respond to my desire to be fat/be with a man/pad/etc.—or it means I can sever my desire to do these things. After being a therapist for many years, I don’t think that’s a very useful way of thinking about these things.
In my work as a therapist, I’m much more interested in behavior (and behavioral change) than I am about cause and effect. Did a fat man who may have abused you nearly 50 years ago “cause” you to be this way? Ultimately, it doesn’t matter, and there’s no way I know of going back and finding out as some sort of detective, particularly because it’s unlikely the man is even still alive. But here are facts I do know about. At our clinic we would see about 1 in 4 women had been sexually abused at some time and 1 in 5 men had been. Remember, we see people who are seeking help—so these percentages should not be read as true for the entire population of humanity. Here’s the other fact I know—a lot of people have a false belief that being abused “makes” someone gay or lesbian. If this were true, then we wouldn’t see that Gays and Lesbians make up about 8-10 percent of people—we’d see the Gay and Lesbian making up between 20-25 percent of the population—in fact, you’d have even more, since most gays and lesbians weren’t sexually abused as children, but turned out the way they are anyway.
Speaking directly from my experience working with patients who have been sexually abused, how the person interprets the experience makes a tremendous difference. In other words, two people can have the exact same experience, but it will harm one person and not the other. I will say the research indicates that many males who were sexually abused as children will often have gender-based “guilt” because they are socialized around the idea males don’t get abused—only females do (and this is a very false belief—that’s why it can cause so much harm to believe it). The problem comes in that they are trained to believe it was wrong for them to be abused, without the realization they were little kids at the time—who could not possibly have protected themselves. They then spend the rest of their lives (unless they have successful therapy) blaming themselves, rather than seeing the responsibility was in the hands of the adult abuser.
Let me also disclose I was a student of Elizabeth Loftus…she’s one of the leading figures in the study of memory. She’s done a lot of research in what are called “false memories.” In earlier times, we thought of human memory rather like a roll of film, or a DVD—you “played it” inside your head and there it was. We now understand every time you use your memory you aren’t necessarily “playing it” the same way. Sometimes you “speed it up,” sometimes you “slow” it down to examine some details, and sometimes because of how you were asked to recall the memory—you end up reconstructing it, and eventually, the way you recall it ends up very differently from the way you remembered a year or more ago. Just so, a therapist who is not aware of how memory works can end up actually “reconstructing” memory in a patient, so he ends up with what’s called a “false memory.” That’s another reason why I’m less interested in how accurate your memory of the fat man your therapist examined actually is. Again, in the work I do, I’m much more interested in behavioral change.
As near as we can tell about sexual orientation, it appears to have a very strong genetic origin. This means that if you had never encountered the fat man, you would have still been gay, because that’s the way you were born. As I have written before, there is a theory of the “Lovemap,” where your erotic landscape can be shaped at a very young age. An encounter with a fat man (I’ve discussed this on earlier posts on this blog) that formed an internal connection with you of eroticism before the age of eight, may be one of the reasons why you have found fat/soft men attractive almost as far back as you can remember. Please note this doesn’t mean that “therefore” the fat man who may have abused you was the one who “made” you find fat men attractive. Have you considered that perhaps your interest in the fat man was precisely because at that time in your life, just as you do now—you found fat men attractive? See how just looking for “cause and effect” can get messy?
So—let’s try to play with your questions:
1) 1) Is this like smoking, where you can “quit it” and become a “recovering smoker?” (That’s not exactly your question, but I’m not going to use your exact questions, because the way you ask them starts to trip you up before you can get anywhere).
I had a friend who spent 7 years seeing a psychiatrist twice a week. His psychiatrist told him it was “Ok for you to have these desires—it’s just wrong for you to act out on them.” When my friend saw a gay psychiatrist, the first session, he was told, “There’s nothing wrong with you. You’re gay. Of course you have gay fantasies. You’re gay.” My friend’s world turned upside down. He literally booked a trip around the world. He embraced his gay self and didn’t need therapy anymore. That’s where he was when I met him and we became friends.
See, many of us who work in therapy get “twitchy” when people try to compare smoking or alcoholism with their sexuality. Your body does not naturally require cigarettes or a martini. That’s why a person can never have another cigarette or another martini and be just fine. But we know sex is what’s called a “drive.” It’s a central part of being a human being. If you try to shut off your sexuality, you can end up seriously damaging yourself.
To the best of our current scientific knowledge, you can’t “stop” being gay. That’s why it’s called a “sexual orientation,” and not a “sexual preference.” You don’t get to “choose” your sexual orientation. A lot of people have worked very hard to try to change sexual orientation-and to the best of our scientific knowledge—they just can’t do it. They are sometimes able to change sexual behavior—but that’s not sexual orientation. The desire—the interest—the excitement will still be there. There are also some people who are bisexual, who are able to be faithful to their male or female partner, but that’s a very different issue. In other words, trying to shut off your sexuality will usually cause damage. Being connected to your sexuality—whether it’s gay or bisexual, tends to empower you. But if you’re not bisexual, and you’re not straight, then no—to the best of our knowledge, you are not able to change your gay sexual orientation, where all the years of messiness can be brushed away and you get to live happily ever after with your wife.
2) 2) Can I change my behavior?
Oh, yes, you can always change your behavior. There are, however, some behaviors that are very difficult to change. For example, if you remember me mentioning the “Lovemap,” sometimes a person’s erotic landscape can be damaged (Money called them “vandalized”). For example, a very common paraphilia (a medical/psychiatric term—I would never use the word obsession with a patient) is a man (and most paraphilias are seen in men, rather than women) is a focus on women’s shoes. Such a man has no interest in establishing a relationship with an actual woman—he can only have a sexual experience with a woman’s shoe. We believe this happened when he was very young—what we call “pre-verbal”—before he had much of an actual vocabulary. Perhaps he was playing in his mother’s closet and his eroticism became “fused” with the touch/smell/sight of female shoes. Lovemaps that have been damaged at a pre-verbal stage are difficult to treat with “talk therapy.” That’s logical right? You’re trying to use “talk” to change a behavior that was shaped before the person could really speak. If a Lovemap is damaged to the extent a person cannot form a relationship with another human being, and this happened at a pre-verbal stage, one treatment is to use a medication that greatly reduces his sexual drive. This usually brings a great sense of relief, and then “talk therapy” seems to work more effectively.
But in your case, as near as I can tell, you have been able to form a caring and human relationship with your wife and your children, so I don’t think your interest in fat men is a paraphilia at all. I do think it is a “kink”—and some other kinks are men who like women with large breasts, or women who find men with tattoos attractive. So—let’s review—being gay means you are attracted to men. Your particular kinky interest is for a particular type of man—a fat man, a soft man, an ex jock. Is this really any different than a woman who is sexually attracted to men, being more drawn to a blonde than a brunette, or to a hairier man than to a man with little hair?
3) 3)I enjoy padding because it helps me imagine myself as I wish to be—larger. How can I be more successful in fulfilling my desires and being happy?
Now—that’s an excellent question, lol. Here’s a neat little jingle to remember—“What you resist—will persist.” In other words, what you concentrate on not doing becomes something almost impossible for you to ignore—that’s how the human brain operates. For example, if I tell you---DON’T THINK OF THE COLOR BLUE!”—what do you think of? See—negation is a linguistic concept. It’s not how your brain processes information. This is why if you tell a child, “don’t be nervous,” they can become more nervous. This is why if you tell a child, “don’t talk,” they often can’t shut up. You have spent literally decades of telling yourself what NOT to do, rather than telling yourself what you should do.
When a patient comes to me like this, I feel it’s like someone going to an architect and saying, “I want you to design a house I DON’T want to live in.”
So—to answer your question—if you keep doing the same behavior that you’ve been doing—you’re very likely to get the same result. One thing I learned growing up in a farming family—if you plant corn, you tend to get corn. We don’t plant corn and think, “Gosh, this time I hope we get avocados.” If you want a different result, then you need to change your behavior.
The padding may be something that helps you “transition” from having falsely lived a “straight” life to one as a gay man who wants to be fat. But padding alone doesn’t help you form a relationship with a gay or bisexual man…if you don’t use it as a transition, then you can become so “self-focused” you don’t go out and actually interact with other gay men. You don’t end up being able to live an authentic gay life. You get trapped in some sort of bizarre “twilight zone” where you’re not trying to live a straight life anymore, but you’re not living a gay one either. I am pretty confident that if you sort of do a “chant” inside your head, “I’m not going to pad, I’m not going to pad,” that at some point, you’ll end up padding, just as I’ve known many people with substance abuse problems who chant inside their heads, “I’m not doing to drink, I’m not going to drink,” who soon end up drunk. By the way, this is what happens to a lot of fundamentalist Christian ministers or politicians who rant on about how certain behaviors are shameful and “sinful” and then you get to read in the paper—they were arrested for doing that precise “shameful/sinful” thing.
I suspect you have been using the padding as a substitute for what you believe will actually make you happy. I think you’re getting to the point where it may be more useful for you to try to do what you believe will actually make you happy.
And just as an observation—sometimes when a person does do what they think will actually make them happy—they discover it doesn’t. As I’ve told patients and students over the years, “Sometimes you need to discover what you don’t want, to discover what you do want.” Just so, you may have a fantasy that if your waist size becomes the same as your height—then you’ll be very happy. But you may end up discovering that gaining say, 25 pounds makes you very happy, and you end up staying at that size. And trust me on this one—you may have a fantasy that being with a fat man will make you very happy—only to discover that what makes you happy is being with someone you love and care about. His being fat won’t necessarily translate into having a happy, healthy relationship. There are (shock!) some fat men who just don’t make good partners, just as there are some skinny/fit/bald men who just don’t make good partners—not because of the way they look, but the way they interact with you.
4) 4) I’ve not had sex with any man, fat or otherwise. What are some of my options?
Well, certainly, one of your options is…wait for it…having sex with a man, fat or otherwise. Since you’re attracted to fat men, I would probably suggest you have sex with a fat man.
I don’t know where you live—what city or even country. But I know you can use the internet because that’s how you found me. Do a search for a Gay/Lesbian Community Center. Frankly, it would be easier to find one close by, but if you’re still worried that people will discover you’re actually gay (and you’re not ready for that yet) then go to a different city. One college professor I know who lived in a rural area discovered something called “The Body Electric.” This was originally started in California, but has expanded nationally. It’s a workshop originally designed to teach men about gay sexuality, gay spirituality, and most important (for people who don’t have much experience with those first two)—gay sensuality. It is a training that allows you to become aware of your own body, your responses, and in a safe, monitored environment, allows you to discover how the bodies of other men respond to touch, to gentle massage, and interaction. The college professor, who lived in the Midwest, would take a weekend “vacation” twice a year to Minneapolis when Body Electric would have their workshops there. He lived for those experiences he had every six months, until he was ready to move on to the next stage of his life. He became involved with another man, and they are now married and living together in Canada.
If you can find a Body Electric Workshop (and btw, in full disclosure, I have no direct connection to Body Electric—I know many people who have, and all have been very happy with their experience, and I attended a workshop at a gay and bisexual men’s retreat that provided an overview of what Body Electric does) I would highly recommend you attend one, even if it means going to another city to do so. This will give you a literal “hands on experience” and the men who attend will be a wide range of maleness—and this includes some who are fat and/or soft ex-jocks. The workshop is deliberately designed for you as a participant to not only physically touch the type of man you may most desire, but a range of men, so you’ll also know what it means to touch a hairy man, an older man, a younger man, etc.
If you are able to locate a Gay and Lesbian Community Center near you (or in a close by city) then find out what sort of support groups they offer. Almost all will have a support group for men who are in the process of coming out, or have recently done so (like you) and there should be a skilled group leader who helps participants to become the gay men they were meant to be. You can learn a great deal through the Internet, and you can certainly learn to use “chat rooms” and a webcamera—but to be frank, these are all just variations of padding. None of these experiences will let you form a happy and healthy relationship with another man. At one point, you’ll need to interact with other gay men…you’ll need to socialize—you’ll need to date.
And I would suggest the support group because you’ve spent over half a century learning how NOT to be a healthy and happy gay man. You don’t yet have the right skill set. I’m struck by the fact that you gave your age as 57. I had just written another article about Rick Welts. (The photo shows him with his partner, Todd Gage, on the right. They had just done this photo to show their support for marriage equality in California.) Mr. Welts is your age. Four months ago, he came out as a gay man. He was the head of a National Basketball Association team, the Phoenix Suns. At his age he realized he had gotten to the point he just didn’t want to continue in his life being unhappy. He became the highest ranking man in professional sports to out himself. On September 15, 2011, he quit his job with the Phoenix Suns and moved to the bay area of California to be with his new partner, Todd Gage. This week he was offered the job of being head of another Basketball team, the Golden State Warriors. In other words, he is your age. He is gay. He is out. He is in a relationship with another gay man, and he’s been hired to do the work he most loves.
You, from what I understand from your letter, have spent most of your life where you kept part of yourself hidden away, to the extent you didn’t feel you could trust anyone to accept who you really are. As a Family Therapist who specializes in couples, I would suggest this is more likely to be what killed your marriage. It wasn’t about being gay. It wasn’t about wanting to be chubby—it was about not being who you really are in a relationship with someone you felt could truly accept you for who you are. There were wonderful results of this—you mention your children, for example. But as someone who has never met you, but who has worked with so many couples over the years, I can’t help but wonder what your life would have been like if you had asked these sort of questions (my version of them—the way you asked them would just keep you trapped doing the same thing) when you were say, 21, what the last 30plus years would have been like for you. I can’t help but wonder what your wife’s life would have been like if she had been able to marry a man who could fully accept and love her in every way that a straight partner is able to do. I also am confident that if you heal and become a very happy and healthy gay man, you’ll be a remarkable role model for your children to teach them how to accept their own wholeness and sense of self. That’s one of the most amazing gifts a parent can ever give a child (of any age).
You are moving to the time of breaking free of the isolation of the internet, which can meet some of your needs, but is not able to nourish you the way other human beings can. I do know from my friends who do primate research—primates (and as humans, we just happen to be one of the biggest ones—and interestingly, we have the largest penis size of any primates…which should tell you something about how God/Goddess/Evolution actually designed humans) need to be touched. If you’ve never had a massage before—you’re way past due. There are in many communities, male massage therapists. These are not the same as “escorts” who are really commercial sex workers. Frankly, I don’t think you’re ready for a commercial sex worker at this point. But I think it would be a very good thing for you to be touched in a healthy way by a man who knows what he’s doing and in an interaction that is sensual—but not sexual—in nature. You need a lot of these “baby steps” before you are ready to step into the shoes of a happy and healthy gay man.
I wish you the very best. Please write back and let me know what happens. But I do know—if you continue doing the same behaviors you have, you’ll most likely have the same results—and you tell me you’re not happy with those results, or like padding, the behaviors only meet your needs in a temporary fashion. If you go ahead and change your behaviors—it is very likely you’re going to get different results—and you just might end up happy and healthy.
